A Sense of Doubt blog post #3446 - If GRRM Doesn't Really Want to Finish WINDS OF WINTER, that's Okay... (or is it?)
It's been 13 years.
At this point, I have almost lost interest.
HERE'S some articles plus content from Martin's own blog.
Free George R. R. Martin from The Winds of Winter
If he doesn’t want to write it, I’m not gonna make him. It’s fine. I’m fine.
this point in my career, I’ve written many thousands of words and edited quite a few different writers. I know a lot about procrastination. That is why, without speaking to the man or knowing him personally at all, I am nonetheless prepared to make the case that George R. R. Martin simply does not want to finish writing The Winds of Winter.
He’s just not into it. If he continues to force himself to do it, the end result will probably be a pretty terrible book — and I think he knows that, and that’s why he can’t finish it, because he doesn’t want to publish a bad book. The alternative? We don’t get the book at all. And for me, that’s actually preferable.
I could be misreading the signs, of course. Like so many other unhinged fans of A Song of Ice and Fire, I’m basing this purely on vibes, and Martin does love to troll all of us by posting oblique productivity quotes and tagging them with the word “writing,” suggesting that he’s quite merrily chugging along on The Winds of Winter. I also realize that by writing this post, I may be invoking the wrath of fate itself in such a way that Martin will post on his blog tomorrow that The Winds of Winter is officially done and now in his editors’ hands. That would be great, actually! But I don’t think that’s gonna happen.
I realize this is a controversial opinion amongst fellow A Song of Ice and Fire fans. I read the original books all in a whack long before the TV show was even announced, and I waited along with everyone else for A Dance with Dragons, which was a day-one purchase for me. I’m one of those people who has always strongly preferred the books to the HBO series, which was one reason why I actually fell off watching, instead content to wait for the book series to conclude the story instead. Given all of that, you’d think I’d be one of the fans begging GRRM to finish The Winds of Winter already, lest I never get closure on the long-running story. Instead, I feel the complete opposite.
Part of my change in opinion is due to the unusual circumstances in which GRRM finds himself. There are very few other examples of a hit book series getting adapted into a show before it has concluded, but I can think of at least one other: Fullmetal Alchemist, for which the original manga had not concluded even as the anime adaptation sped past it and had to invent its own (widely disliked) ending to the story. The manga’s author, Hiromu Arakawa, was still busily writing the rest of her manga, one that ended up with a much stronger conclusion. A whole different anime called Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood got released a few years later — a redo of the whole adaptation concept, this time more faithfully following Arakawa’s story and, perhaps most importantly, her intended ending.
Like Arakawa, George R. R. Martin had some involvement in the TV adaptation of his work, although he claims not to have been as involved in the show’s final seasons. Speaking to the New York Times in 2022, Martin said “by Season 5 and 6, and certainly 7 and 8, I was pretty much out of the loop.” As for why that happened, “I don’t know — you have to ask [showrunners] Dan [Weiss] and David [Benioff].” At that time, Martin had this to say about The Winds of Winter: “My ending will be very different.”
Yet unlike Arakawa, who kept on writing the Fullmetal Alchemist manga at a steady clip (while simultaneously lending an opinion or two towards the two anime adaptations), George R. R. Martin appears to have had several other priorities. These priorities haven’t all been divergent from the characters from A Song of Ice and Fire, of course; Martin’s 2018 novel Fire & Blood, which is set 300 years before the events of A Song of Ice and Fire, led to the TV show House of the Dragon, which Martin has also been working on and has seemed pretty excited about, if his personal blog is any indication. He’s clearly not tired of the world he built and he still has more to say.
It just doesn’t seem like The Winds of Winter fits into the category of things that Martin is excited about.
This is super weird to me, because if I were Martin, the shitshow that was Game of Thrones’ final season and the disappointed fan reactions would be enough to psychologically propel me into angrily and speedily writing a “very different” ending, like the one Martin apparently has in mind. Spite can be a powerful motivator, and if Martin is correct that he got slow-faded out of that Game of Thrones production room, wouldn’t he be even more motivated to correct the record? And yet, here we are, in a world where years and years go by and Martin seems far more interested in telling totally different stories.
This is the part of the article where we’re going to talk about procrastination and why it happens. In my experience, there are two major reasons why it can occur. Again, I’m only talking about myself here; mine is the writer’s brain I know the best, after all. Ever since I got an ADHD diagnosis at the age of 12, I have become extremely familiar with the two kinds of procrastinating that I do.
The first is the better kind, because I personally have found I can solve it with a Wellbutrin prescription. The way it works is simple: It’s just too damn hard to get started on a given task, especially a hard one. Even people without ADHD can understand this experience, but people who have ADHD may experience it in a far more acute way, to an extent that their brain may feel that it is impossible to get started at all. I’ve seen it called “ADHD paralysis.” Whatever you call it, it’s a huge pain in the ass if you want to get some writing done, especially difficult or complicated writing. Imagine this: You have writing you want to do, you have a deadline (maybe one you’ve already blown), you know exactly what you want to write, and you do want to write — you just cannot get yourself to start. Here’s the important part of that sentence: You want to write. The only thing holding you back is your own brain.
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And yet, people have been pestering him, and they show no sign of stopping. It keeps on feeling like the book is almost ready. Two years ago, Martin told the public the book was “75% done.” But perhaps rather than talking about his recent estimated percentages, it would be easier to link to this extensive Esquire article outlining every single time that Martin has attempted to put a timeline on the book’s completion, ever since he started writing it circa 2010. There have been a lot of bad guesses on this man’s part about how soon he’s going to be able to finish this book. It’s giving Zeno’s Paradox.
Here’s what I can’t stop thinking about: The Winds of Winter is not even the last book in the series. So it’s not like fans are just impatiently waiting for the conclusion. This is actually the penultimate book. So let’s just say George does manage to knock this one out (which I don’t think he will, based on how much difficulty he’s had thus far). Do fans really think that A Dream of Spring is going to come easily to this man, based on how he’s been doing so far with The Winds of Winter?
Just look at the publish dates for every A Song of Ice and Fire book up to now. Starting with A Game of Thrones in 1996, A Clash of Kings in 1998, and A Storm of Swords in 2000, each book was two years apart (impressive!). Then there’s A Feast for Crows in 2005, and A Dance with Dragons in 2011 — five years in between, then six. Now we’re up to a staggering 13-year wait, and counting.
Meanwhile, Martin doesn’t seem to have a problem getting other projects done — like, say, contributing to Elden Ring’s lore — nor any problem with agreeing to do other projects. This only annoys the fans who want him to have a one-track mind for The Winds of Winter. But to those fans I can only say, put yourself in his shoes. You’re a creative person; you want to do projects that excite you. What does it say that he keeps on choosing other things to do? What does it say about The Winds of Winter that it’s always last on the to-do list? In my case, that would be a pretty strong indication that I simply didn’t have any interest in doing the task that I just kept on pushing off, year after year after year after year. And it might even indicate that I was not-so-secretly hoping that particular task would disappear entirely.
George R. R. Martin’s editors are probably not ever going to do this for him. After all, for them, it’s a huge financial boon if he manages to finish the book. Even if it sucks ass, it will sell! The very prospect of ending his contract would be absurd on their end. And yet, having seen so many years go by with no final draft, it very much appears to be torture for him. I can’t condone that. And I’m a little worried about what kind of book could even result from such a death march.
As fans, or just as humans, we need to accept this reality. Stop asking this man to write the book he clearly hates. After all, we did get an ending, in the form of a rushed television finale; several of the plot points in that finale did line up with where a lot of the books’ foreshadowing appeared to be heading. It’s not like we have no closure at all. It’s very sloppy closure, but it’s something. It’s probably about as good as the original Fullmetal Alchemist ending.
I don’t really know what it looks like for us as laypeople to free George R. R. Martin from this situation. Without his publisher actually forgiving him, he probably won’t ever experience the true relief that comes from an editor telling you that you don’t have to keep working on something that you despise and can’t seem to finish or make into a draft that’s any good. It’s sort of like the relief that happens when you get plans canceled that you never wanted to do in the first place, but way better. Since this will probably never happen for Martin, I can only hope that with this essay, I manage to convince just a few other people to stop pestering the man to finish a book that he seems to have no interest in completing. Imagine how bad he must already feel. He doesn’t need any more reminders of the fact that this series ended with a whimper instead of a bang.
At least Elden Ring was a really cool game, start to finish. We’ll always have that. And probably a hell of a lot of other really cool projects from George R. R. Martin that he actually wants to work on. The Winds of Winter just isn’t going to be one of them.
George R.R. Martin Gives Update On Winds Of Winter, And You Can Probably Guess What He Said
No, the book is not done yet.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/george-r-r-martin-gives-update-on-winds-of-winter-and-you-can-probably-guess-what-he-said/1100-6524823/
Author George R.R. Martin has once again provided an update on the next A Song of Ice and Fire book, The Winds of Winter, and no one should be surprised that the book still is not finished.
Posting on his blog, Martin said that in 2023, when he visited his publishers from Harper Collins Voyager in London, people assumed the book was nearly done and that an announcement about its release was coming. But that's not how this works, Martin said.
He pointed out that when he travels the world for his various speaking engagements and appearances, he schedules time with his publishers, editors, and agents to have face-to-face sitdowns purely to maintain and build these relationships. Communicating over Zoom and email is all well and good, but when Martin travels, he likes to sit down and chat.
"When I travel, if I have a day or two to catch up with one of my editors or agents, I jump on it. Every time I travel to NYC, I get together with my literary agents, and my editors at Bantam and Tor.. along with old friends, family, and the like. That’s true everywhere I go. If I fly to Germany for a con or book fair, I will see my German agents, publishers, and translators," he said. "If it's Italy or Spain or Finland, same thing. If I ever find myself in Brazil or Japan or Egypt, I'd try and connect with my Brazilian or Japanese or Egyptian publishers."
This is the "standard way of doing business," Martin said, adding that it "does not signify that some momentous announcement is at hand."
"It doesn't signify anything, actually… except a desire to touch base, catch up, renew old contacts or make some new ones… and enjoy a nice meal. So calm down, please. When Winds of Winter is done, the word will not trickle out, there WILL be a big announcement… where and when I cannot say," he said.
In 2023, Martin said he still had hundreds of pages to write before he was finished with The Winds of Winter. While fans have to wait a while longer for the next book, the next episode of House of the Dragon is set for release this Sunday, July 14, and a third season is coming later.
MORE HERE
https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/the-winds-of-winter-a-soulcrushing-history-of-geor/2900-2318/#1
https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/07/11/here-there-be-dragons-2/
Here There Be Dragons
I trust you all caught “The Red Dragon and the Gold,” the fourth episode of season 2 of HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. A lot of you have been wanting for action, I know; this episode delivered it in spades with the Battle of Rook’s Rest, when dragon met dragon in the skies.
Has there ever been a dragon battle to match it? I seem to recall that REIGN OF FIRE had a few scenes where a dozen dragons were wheeling through the skies. So, okay, maybe that was a bigger scene, with more dragons on screen… but a better battle? I don’t think so. Our guys knocked this one out of the castle. I think they took it as a challenge. And the dragons…
Dragons are mythical, of course. In the real world, the one we live in as opposed to those we like to read about… dragons never existed… though similar creatures can be found in legends all around the world. Some believe that maybe the stories were inspired by the discovery of dinosaur bones by farmers plowing their fields. Regardless of where the stories originated, they have been a huge part of fantasy for centuries. And I’ve been fond of them for as long as I remember.
Hell, I’m named after a dragonslayer — St. George, of course — and he’s still a saint, when a lot of other saints were thrown out a couple decades back… which I suppose means that dragons have papal approval. I started writing my own dragon tales long before A GAME OF THRONES. “The Ice Dragon” and “The Way of Cross and Dragon” were two of my best.
Every culture has its own version of dragons; Chinese dragons are wingless and do not breathe fire. They bring good luck. Traditional western dragons bring mostly fire and death… but modern fantasists have played with that a lot too. The dragons of ERAGON and HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON are very different from mine own. (Toothless is even cute).
Tolkien’s dragons were always evil, servants of Morgoth and Sauron. They were akin to his orcs and trolls. JRRT did not do friendly dragons. His dragons were intelligent, though. Smaug talks. He also has a huge horde of gold, a very traditional dragon trait… and he sleeps on his treasure, for months and years at a time.
Before Peter Jackson’s Smaug, the best dragon ever seen on film was Vermithrax Pejorative in DRAGONSLAYER. Two legs and two wings, dangerous, fire-breathing, a flyer, does not talk, does not horde gold. An inspiration for all dragonlovers.
At the other end of the scale is the dragon in DRAGONHEART (voice by Sean Connery). Fat, four-legged, talking, a good guy who befriends the hero. A much inferior dragon in a much inferior film. Bah.
In A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, I set out to blend the wonder of epic fantasy with the grittiness of the best historical fiction. There is magic in my world, yes… but much less of it than one gets in most fantasy. (Tolkien’s Middle Earth was relatively low magic too, and I took my cue from the master). I wanted Westeros to feel real, to evoke the Crusades and the Hundred Years War and the Wars of the Roses as much as it did JRRT with his hobbits and magic rings.
I would have dragons, yes… in part because of my dear friend, the late Phyllis Eisenstein, a marvelous fantasist and science fiction writer in her own right, now sadly missed… but I wanted my dragons to be as real and believable as such a creature could ever be. I designed my dragons with a lot of care. They fly and breathe fire, yes, those traits seemed essential to me. They have two legs (not four, never four) and two wings.
LARGE wings. A lot of fantasy dragons have these itty bitty wings that would never get such a creature off the ground. And only two legs; the wings are the forelegs. Four-legged dragons exist only in heraldry. No animal that has ever lived on Earth has six limbs. Birds have two legs and two wings, bats the same, ditto pteranodons and other flying dinosaurs, etc.
Much of the confusion about the proper number of legs on a dragon has its roots in medieval heraldry. In the beginning both versions could be seen on shields and banners, but over the centuries, as heraldry became more standardized, the heralds took to calling the four-legged beasties dragons and their two-legged kin wyverns. No one had ever seen a dragon or a wyvern, of course; neither creature actually existed save in legend, so there was a certain arbitrary quality to this distinction… and medieval heralds were not exactly renowned for their grasp of zoology, even for real world animals. Just take a look at what they thought a seahorse looked like.
Dragons DO exist in the world of Westeros, however (wyverns too, down in Sothoryos), so my own heralds did not have that excuse. Ergo, in my books, the Targaryen sigil has two legs, as it should. Why would any Westerosi ever put four legs on a dragon, when they could look at the real thing and could their limbs? My wyverns have two legs as well; they differ from the dragons of my world chiefly in size, coloration, and the inability to breath fire. (It should be stressed that while the Targaryen sigil has the proper number of legs (two), it is not exactly anatomically correct. The wings are way too small compared to the body, and of course no dragon has three heads. That bit is purely symbolic, meant to reflect Aegon the Conqueror and his two sisters).
FWIW, the shows got it half right (both of them). GAME OF THRONES gave us the correct two-legged sigils for the first four seasons and most of the fifth, but when Dany’s fleet hove into view, all the sails showed four-legged dragons. Someone got sloppy, I guess. Or someone opened a book on heraldry, and read just enough of it to muck it all up. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A couple years on, HOUSE OF THE DRAGON decided the heraldry should be consistent with GAME OF THRONES.. but they went with the bad sigil rather than the good one. That sound you heard was me screaming, “no, no, no.” Those damned extra legs have even wormed their way onto the covers of my books, over my strenuous objections.
RIGHT
WRONG
Valyrian dragons differ in other ways from the likes of Smaug and Toothless and Vermithrax as well.
My dragons do not talk. They are relatively intelligent, but they are still beasts.
They bond with men… some men… and the why and how of that, and how it came to be, will eventually be revealed in more detail in THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING and some in BLOOD & FIRE. (Septon Barth got much of it right). Like wolves and bears and lions, dragons can be trained, but never entirely tamed. They will always be dangerous. Some are wilder and more wilful than others. They are individuals, they have personalities… and they often reflect the personalities of their riders, thanks to bond they share are. They do not care a whit about gold or gems, no more than a tiger would. Unless maybe their rider was obsessed with the shiny stuff, and even then…
Dragons need food. They need water too, but they have no gills. They need to breathe . Some say that Smaug slept for sixty years below the Lonely Mountains before Bilbo and the dwarves woke him up. The dragons born of Valyria cannot do that. They are creatures of fire, and fire needs oxygen. A dragon could dip into the ocean to scoop up a fish, perhaps, but they’d fly right up again. If held underwater too long, they would drown, just like any other land animal.
My dragons are predators, carnivores who like their meat will done. They can and will hunt their own prey, but they are also territorial. They have lairs. As creatures of the sky, they like mountain tops, and volcanic mountains best of all. These are creatures of fire, and the cold dank caverns that other fantasists house their pets in are not for mine. Man-made dwellings, like the stables of Dragonstone, the towers tops of the Valryian Freehold, and the Dragonpit of King’s Landing, are acceptable — and often come with men bringing them food. If those are not available, young dragons will find their own lairs… and defend them fiercely.
My dragons are creatures of the sky. They fly, and can cross mountains and plains, cover hundreds of miles… but they don’t, unless their riders take them there. They are not nomadic. During the heyday of Valyria there were forty dragon-riding families with hundreds of dragons amongst them… but (aside from our Targaryens) all of them stayed close to the Freehold and the Lands of the Long Summer. From time to time a dragonrider might visit Volantis or another Valyrian colony, even settle there for a few years, but never permanently. Think about it. If dragons were nomadic, they would have overrun half of Essos, and the Doom would only have killed a few of them. Similarly, the dragons of Westeros seldom wander far from Dragonstone. Elsewise, after three hundred years, we would have dragons all over the realm and every noble house would have a few. The three wild dragons mentioned in Fire & Blood have lairs on Dragonstone. The rest can be found in the Dragonpit of King’s Landing, or in deep caverns under the Dragonmont. Luke flies Arrax to Storm’s End and Jace to Winterfell, yes, but the dragons would not have flown there on their own, save under very special circumstances. You won’t find dragons hunting the riverlands or the Reach or the Vale, or roaming the northlands or the mountains of Dorne.
Fantasy needs to be grounded. It is not simply a license to do anything you like. Smaug and Toothless may both be dragons, but they should never be confused. Ignore canon, and the world you’ve created comes apart like tissue paper.
Current Mood: 
thoughtful
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- Bloggery committed by chris tower - 2407.25 - 10:10
- Days ago = 3310 days ago
- New note - On 1807.06, I ceased daily transmission of my Hey Mom feature after three years of daily conversations. I plan to continue Hey Mom posts at least twice per week but will continue to post the days since ("Days Ago") count on my blog each day. The blog entry numbering in the title has changed to reflect total Sense of Doubt posts since I began the blog on 0705.04, which include Hey Mom posts, Daily Bowie posts, and Sense of Doubt posts. Hey Mom posts will still be numbered sequentially. New Hey Mom posts will use the same format as all the other Hey Mom posts; all other posts will feature this format seen here.
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