A Sense of Doubt blog post #4226 - Mine and My Friend's Growing List of Best Science Fiction Novels

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4226 - Mine and My Friend's Growing List of Best Science Fiction Novels

So, I have been making a list of "best" science fiction books with a friend. More on that farther down.

First, the failure of Open AI.

I gave it six files, images of book covers, and asked it to make a grid. This image below was it's first attempt and the closest to what I wanted.

The problem is that though the bottom three images are the ones I gave it, the top three are not.
For those who don't know it, the bottom right image is the Chinese edition of Three Body Problem.

I asked it repeatedly to use the files I gave it, and it could not manage the task.

It gave me things like this:

How is this a grid of six images?

Or the one above, which included this book that I did not feed it nor have I read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Stop_(novel).

And two other books, one that is on the list but not one I shared with it (Asimov) and another that may be put on the list (Zelazny) but has not yet been proposed.

I finally managed to make a grid of all six using the three book row the AI gave me and then clipping the other three book row from the image above. It's not perfectly sized, but I don't really care.

But my issue is that this thing I was asking IS NOT HARD. So why did it repeatedly fail? I don't use AI enough to know or really care, but in light of what I posted yesterday about the risk of super intelligence, it seems to me, that we're a long way from that unless there are other factors at play here (like copyright).

Anyway, here's the list. Just the list for now. In future posts, I will share the proposals arguing for the books and the one that was rejected.

It's a pretty good list, so far, I think.

Deferred means that one of us needs to read the book before accepting or rejecting it.

I am more inclined to accept books I have not read than my friend. For instance, I accepted The Dark Forest (2008) by Liu Cixin without reading it. However, I have decided to read it next, so I could have deferred it. I just figured I would accept it anyway as it is surely worthy to be on the list.

The deferral policy has prompted me to read Quarantine by Greg Egan, which I liked a lot;  The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia (1974) by Ursula K. Le Guin, which I had never read though I had meant to for decades; and Hyperion (1989) by Dan Simmons, which I have also owned for decades and then had to go on and read Fall of Hyperion because Hyperion is a woefully incomplete book. The two books are really one novel.

I have read all the other books on the list, though some I should really re-read. I did re-read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (1979) - by Douglas Adams because I don't think I have ever read it read (non-audio). I proposed Sirens of Titan (1959) by Kurt Vonnegut right after, which my friend deferred, but has now read and accepted. It's the only book placed on the list in the spot in which it was originally proposed.

But really there's no order to the list.

We do have rules though.

The rules are as follows:

1.  This is for Science Fiction, and not Speculative Fiction.  We may attempt that later, or a different sub-genre, but there are good reasons to focus on Science Fiction as opposed to the more generic Speculative Fiction.  Primarily where does one put Mythology and religious texts?  I think it is wise to avoid those.

2.  We take turns proposing one, and only one, book.  If multiple books from a series are to be added, they are done individually.

3.  The person proposing a book, is essentially voting to put that book on the list.  The other person can either agree, defer, or disagree to the proposed book.  Defer would be where we need to think about it and probably re-read the book in order to either agree or disagree.

4.  Only books which have been proposed and agreed to make it on the list.

5.  There is no limit to the list.  It can continue to grow as time goes on.

6.  There is no order to the list, these books are all worthy of being considered among the best science fiction books of all time.

7.  At this point my assumption is that we would never remove a book from the list, but this could be discussed if there were a good reason.

CRITERIA

“Science Fiction books that have those moments where the author gets the reader to broaden their mind and realize new possibilities” tracks with my own and refines further the criteria of “books SF readers should read” and “best books in the genre.” Our favorites.

If you are reading this blog and read this far and have a book to suggest, please leave a comment.

Thanks for tuning in.

The List

- Frankenstein (1818 / 1831) by Mary Shelley

- Journey to the Center of the Earth (1864) by Jules Verne

- The War of the Worlds (1898) by H. G. Wells

- Dune (1965) by Frank Herbert

- Snow Crash (1992) by Neal Stephenson

- The Demolished Man (1953) Alfred Bester.

- Ender's Game (1985) by Orson Scott Card

- Childhood’s End (1953 / 1990) by Arthur C. Clarke

- Flowers for Algernon (1966) by Daniel Keyes

- Ringworld (1970) - by Larry Niven

- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (1979) - by Douglas Adams

- Sirens of Titan (1959) by Kurt Vonnegut

- 1984 (1949) by George Orwell

- The Three-Body Problem (2008/2014) by Liu Cixin (translated by Ken Liu)

- Foundation (1951) by Isaac Asimov

- The Left Hand of Darkness (1969) by Ursula K. Le Guin

- Gateway (1977) by Frederik Pohl

- The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966) by Robert Heinlein

- Fahrenheit 451 (1953) by Ray Bradbury

- Startide Rising (1983) by David Brin

- The Handmaid's Tale (1985) by Margaret Atwood

- Brave New World (1932) by Aldous Huxley

- A Canticle for Leibowitz (1959) by Walter M. Miller, Jr.

- Doomsday Book (1992) by Connie Willis

- Slan (1940) by A. E. van Vogt

- Binti (2019) by Nnedi Okorafor (Omnibus - including Binti, Binti: Sacred Fire), Binti: Home, Binti: The Night Masquerade)

- A Clockwork Orange (1962) by Anthony Burgess

- A Fire Upon the Deep (1992) by Vernor Vinge

- The Windup Girl (2009) by Paolo Bacigalupi

- Speaker for the Dead (1986) by Orson Scott Card

- Day of the Triffids (1951) by John Wyndham

- Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) by Robert A. Heinlein

- The Caves of Steel (Robot #1) (1954) by Isaac Asimov

- Foundation and Empire (1952) by Isaac Asimov

- The Star My Destination (1956) by Alfred Bester

- Quarantine (1992) by Greg Egan

- The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia (1974) by Ursula K. Le Guin

- Hyperion (1989) by Dan Simmons

- Nova (1968) Samuel Delany

- The Mote in God’s Eye (1974) by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle

- The Martian Chronicles (1950) by Ray Bradbury

- Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (1869-70) by Jules Verne

- The Lathe of Heaven (1971) by Ursula K. LeGuin

- The Dark Forest (2008) by Liu Cixin

 

Deferred

- Redshirts (2012) by John Scalzi - Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

- Wild Seed (1980) by Octavia Butler - Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

- Spin (2005) by Robert Charles Wilson - Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

- Roadside Picnic (1971) by Arkady Strugatsky, Boris Strugatsky - Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

- Titan (1979) by John Varley - Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

- Last and First Men (1930) by Olaf Stapledon - Proposed by DR and deferred by CBT

- Planet of the Apes (1963) by Pierre Boulle and Translator - Xan Fielding – Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

- The Twentieth Century (1882) (Early Classics Of Science Fiction) by Albert Robida and Philippe Willems - Proposed by DR and deferred by CBT

- The Gods Themselves (1972) by Isaac Asimov – Proposed by CBT, Deferred by DR

 

Rejected

 A Princess of Mars (Barsoom #1) (1912) by Edgar Rice Burroughs - Rejected by DR

 

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- Bloggery committed by chris tower - 2609.12 - 10:10

- Days ago: MOM = 4090 days ago & DAD = 744 days ago

- New note - On 1807.06, I ceased daily transmission of my Hey Mom feature after three years of daily conversations. I post Hey Mom blog entries on special occasions. I post the days since ("Days Ago") count on my blog each day, and now I have a second count for Days since my Dad died on August 28, 2024. I am now in the same time zone as Google! So, when I post at 10:10 a.m. PDT to coincide with the time of Mom's death, I am now actually posting late, so it's really 1:10 p.m. EDT. But I will continue to use the time stamp of 10:10 a.m. to remember the time of her death and sometimes 13:40 EDT for the time of Dad's death. The blog entry numbering in the title has changed to reflect total Sense of Doubt posts since I began the blog on 0705.04, which include Hey Mom posts, Daily Bowie posts, and Sense of Doubt posts. Hey Mom posts will still be numbered sequentially. New Hey Mom posts will use the same format as all the other Hey Mom posts; all other posts will feature this format seen here.

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4222 - STAR TREK DAY - 60th Anniversary of the Best Show Ever!

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4222 - STAR TREK DAY - 60th Anniversary of the Best Show Ever!

I love STAR TREK.

No surprise for people who know me.

I actually do not rate it as the best TV show ever. That's the latest Battlestar Galactia as well as Chernobyl, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Lost. Others might say Breaking Bad or Six Under, but I have not watched those series in their entirety.

Long before Star Wars came out, there was Star Trek.

I was kind of young for the original broadcasts. I saw most if not all of it in re-runs in the after school two hours of Bugs Bunny, Gilligan's Island, and then Star Trek.

Though there was a lot of Brady Bunch and Partridge Family mixed in there, too.

Star Trek has been a great love that has carried through my whole life.

I bonded with college friends watching the original series.

I bonded with post-college friends and collabortaed on a novel with the original cast (never published).

I found a Star Trek fan group in my new home out west here, and though I do not attend often enough, I am glad that they exist.

Cheers to Star Trek.

Thanks for tuning in.

https://www.paramount.com/news/celebrating-60-years-of-star-trek-around-the-globe

On September 8, 1966, Star Trek: The Original Series made its television debut, introducing audiences to Gene Roddenberry’s vision of a future built around exploration, optimism and discovery. Six decades later, that vision has grown into one of entertainment’s most enduring franchises, spanning 11 television series, 14 films and more than 900 episodes.

For John Van Citters, VP of Brand Development for Star Trek, the franchise’s longevity comes back to what has been at its core from the beginning. “What really separates Star Trek and has given it enduring appeal across generations is that it’s a brand of values,” he says. “Gene Roddenberry’s original construct has shown itself time and again to be malleable across different shows and characters to remain relevant to new generations of viewers.”

This year, the franchise’s annual Star Trek Day on September 8 takes on added significance as Star Trek marks its 60th anniversary. Paramount is commemorating the milestone with screenings, fan experiences, television specials, theatrical events and partnerships stretching from Hollywood to London and all the way to the International Space Station.

“Star Trek Day is an opportunity to make more noise about Star Trek. To remind people that it’s not just a great show and great storytelling, but it’s a part of our larger world and culture,” Van Citters says. “I think Star Trek Day gives us the opportunity to celebrate a rare piece of popular culture and remind people that in a world that can seem harsh, there is always room for the optimism that Star Trek represents.”

 

 

A Global Salute to 60 Years

At the center of the September 8 festivities is one of Star Trek’s most recognizable gestures: the Vulcan Salute. Fans around the world are invited to participate in a global digital Vulcan Salute celebrating connection, community and optimism. The initiative will culminate at London’s Science Museum, where fans will gather for an official Guinness World Records™ attempt for the Most People Performing the Vulcan Salute Simultaneously as part of the museum’s free, adults-only Star Trek Lates event.

Across London, King’s Cross St Pancras and South Kensington Underground stations will feature Star Trek-themed takeovers from September 7-8 as part of a four-destination fan trail, while Samsung’s King’s Cross flagship store will host screenings and activations in partnership with Paramount+.

In Los Angeles, fans can celebrate “under the stars” at the Autry Museum on September 8 with a free outdoor screening of Star Trek: The Original Series episode “The Man Trap” and an advance screening of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds episode “Orders of Magnitude,” in addition to talent appearances, food trucks and giveaways. Hollywood will also honor Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry with the restoration of his “Star” plaque on Hollywood Boulevard, which was first introduced in 1985.

In Germany, Movie Park Germany will mark Star Trek Day with live entertainment, cosplay, special guests, fan activities and participation in the global Vulcan Salute attempt.

 

Star Trek Goes to Space — For Real

For a franchise that has spent 60 years imagining humanity among the stars, one of the anniversary’s most fitting tributes will happen in orbit. European Space Agency astronaut Sophie Adenot will wear the Captain’s Delta badge from Star Trek: Strange New Worlds aboard the International Space Station, with special content from orbit premiering across Star Trek social channels September 8.
 

The Final Frontier Returns to the Big Screen

Additionally, from September 4-8, more than 750 theaters across the U.S. will present restored 4K screenings of classic Star Trek films paired with episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series making their theatrical debut. Participating theaters will also offer limited-edition Enterprise popcorn vessels and commemorative drink cups while supplies last.

Limited-edition Enterprise popcorn vessel

In the UK and Republic of Ireland, Star Trek’s largest market outside the U.S., Paramount is celebrating another milestone: the 40th anniversary of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. A theatrical re-release will mark the first time the digital 4K version has been widely available in cinemas across the market and will feature all-new artwork from acclaimed artist and frequent Paramount collaborator Matt Ferguson (Transformers One, The Running Man). Released in 1986, The Voyage Home became the most commercially successful of the classic Star Trek films, earning $110 million at the domestic box office.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home commemorative artwork by Matt Ferguson

Products and Partnerships Celebrate 60 Years

The 60th anniversary is also extending beyond the screen through partnerships and products that tap into Star Trek’s legacy of exploration, imagination and fandom.

Star Trek is partnering with DarkSky International to encourage fans to explore, protect and appreciate night skies and natural landscapes for future generations. The franchise is also teaming with the National Park Foundation on digital content encouraging fans to discover national parks and places that inspire exploration.

Fans can bring the anniversary home through a lineup of new products and collaborations. The LEGO Group and Paramount Products & Experiences are releasing the 1,701-piece LEGO Icons Star Trek: U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 Bridge set, recreating the original series bridge and transporter room with eight Starfleet minifigures.

LEGO Icons Star Trek: U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 Bridge set

Additional collaborations include Magic: The Gathering x Star Trek, launching November 13; DK Publishing’s Star Trek Timelines, arriving November 17; commemorative 60th anniversary coins from The Royal Mint and Agoro; and the first officially realized Original Saurian Brandy, inspired by the iconic bottle first seen in “The Man Trap” in 1966.

 

Paramount Brands Join the Celebration

The anniversary will also reach across Paramount’s brands and platforms. The celebration begins on September 7 with an Entertainment Tonight: ET Vault Unlocked special featuring archival interviews with Gene Roddenberry and cast members from across the franchise, along with behind-the-scenes footage.

On September 8, The Price Is Right and Let’s Make a Deal will celebrate Star Trek with themed episodes airing on CBS and streaming on Paramount+. Star Trek: Strange New Worlds stars Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck will join Drew Carey on The Price Is Right, where an audience of superfans will compete for Star Trek-inspired prizes. On Let’s Make a Deal, “Captain” Wayne Brady, “Commander” Jonathan Mangum and “First Officer” Tiffany Coyne will welcome Star Trek fans competing for vacations, franchise memorabilia and more.

Superfans compete on The Price Is Right for Star Trek-inspired prizes

Also on September 8, season two of Star Trek: Scouts launches on YouTube, and Nick at Nite will present a four-hour marathon of memorable Star Trek-themed episodes of The Big Bang Theory.

 

Celebrating the Past and Looking Ahead

The 60th anniversary comes as the Star Trek universe continues to evolve. Star Trek: Strange New Worlds will conclude its fourth season on September 24 on Paramount+, before returning for its fifth and final season in 2027. At New York Comic Con on October 10, the Star Trek Universe panel will preview Star Trek: Starfleet Academy, dive into its second season and welcome surprise guests to celebrate the anniversary.

Star Trek will also receive the Franchise of the Year Award at the 2026 Broadcasting + Cable Hall of Fame ceremony on September 29 in recognition of six decades of storytelling and cultural influence.

What began with one television series in 1966 has grown into a global universe spanning television, film, animation, games, publishing and experiences. Six decades later, Star Trek continues to look toward what might come next.

For Van Citters, that sense of possibility is exactly what makes the franchise’s future so compelling. “The universe is limitless,” he said. “What excites me the most about Star Trek is what we haven’t seen yet.”

For full details of all Star Trek 60th events, activations and partnerships, visit StarTrek.com.

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- Bloggery committed by chris tower - 2609.08 - 10:10

- Days ago: MOM = 4086 days ago & DAD = 740 days ago

- New note - On 1807.06, I ceased daily transmission of my Hey Mom feature after three years of daily conversations. I post Hey Mom blog entries on special occasions. I post the days since ("Days Ago") count on my blog each day, and now I have a second count for Days since my Dad died on August 28, 2024. I am now in the same time zone as Google! So, when I post at 10:10 a.m. PDT to coincide with the time of Mom's death, I am now actually posting late, so it's really 1:10 p.m. EDT. But I will continue to use the time stamp of 10:10 a.m. to remember the time of her death and sometimes 13:40 EDT for the time of Dad's death. The blog entry numbering in the title has changed to reflect total Sense of Doubt posts since I began the blog on 0705.04, which include Hey Mom posts, Daily Bowie posts, and Sense of Doubt posts. Hey Mom posts will still be numbered sequentially. New Hey Mom posts will use the same format as all the other Hey Mom posts; all other posts will feature this format seen here.

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4207 - GEN X - I am not a Boomer; I am a Gen Xer - Music Monday 2608.24

 A Sense of Doubt blog post #4207 - GEN X - I am not a Boomer; I am a Gen Xer - Music Monday 2608.24

I have been engaged in debates about my generation.

I have never felt that I fit in with BOOMERS. After all, the Baby Boom was a post-World War Two population explosion of veterans returning from the war and starting families. My father was not a WWII vet. My paternal Grandfather was but not my Dad.

My parents were ten and nine years old at the end of WWII; they married in 1958. I was born in 1962, during the Kennedy era, that's seventeen years after WWII ended.

I am Gen X. I identify with EVERY cultural marker of Generation X and none of the cultural markers of the Baby Boomers.

Just like I didn't fit in with my original class of 1980, graduating high school or entering college, and identified completely with the next college class, graduating in 1985. And so I graduated with them.

Accepting arbitrary decisions of so called experts divisions of generation markers as indisputable law is fatuous.

There's actually quite a lot of debate about the years of the Baby Boomers and the years of Generation X as I copy below from Wikipedia. Regardless, I hold to Strauss and Howe as well as Gordinier (whose book I have read) that puts Gen X between 1961 and 1981.

Even more interesting is David Foot's separation of Gen X to 1960-1966 and the "Bust" generation from 1967-1979.

Nevertheless, I consider myself Gen X, and I will die on this hill against anyone trying to argue otherwise.

Also, it's Music Monday, so I made a mix for Gen X.

It's 1980s and 1990s music with only some Nick Drake (late 1960s and very early 1970s before his death in 1974) and a Beatles cover of "Tomorrow Never Knows" (1966) as the only pre-1980s or even 1990s selections.

Thanks for tuning in.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X\

Other age range markers

On the basis of the time it takes for a generation to mature, U.S. authors William Strauss and Neil Howe define Generation X as those born between 1961 and 1981 in their 1991 book titled Generations, and differentiate the cohort into an early and late wave.^[48] Jeff Gordinier, in his 2008 book X Saves the World, include those born between 1961 and 1977 but possibly as late as 1980.^[9] George Masnick of the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies puts this generation in the time-frame of 1965 to 1984, in order to satisfy the premise that boomers, Xers, and millennials "cover equal 20-year age spans".^[44] In 2004, journalist J. Markert also acknowledged the 20-year increments but goes one step further and subdivides the generation into two 10-year cohorts with early and later members of the generation. The first begins in 1966 and ends in 1975 and the second begins in 1976 and ends in 1985; this thinking is applied to each generation (Silent, boomers, Gen X, millennials, etc.).^[49]

Based on external events of historical importance, Schewe and Noble in 2002 argue that a cohort is formed against significant milestones and can be any length of time. Against this logic, Generation X begins in 1966 and ends in 1976, with those born between 1955 and 1965 being labelled as "trailing-edge boomers".^[50]

The 1994 book Baby Busters: The Disillusioned Generation by George Barna refers to those born 1965–1983 as the "baby busters" generation rather than as Generation X.^[51]

In Canada, professor David Foot describes Generation X as late boomers and includes those born between 1960 and 1966, whilst the "Bust Generation", those born between 1967 and 1979, is considered altogether a separate generation, in his 1996 book Boom Bust & Echo: How to Profit from the Coming Demographic Shift.^[52][53]

GEN X SAVES THE WORLD MIX

I am not sure what's wrong with the embed function, but the video is available.

TRACK LIST

[1] Let Down (Remastered) Radiohead

[2] Man Out Of Time Elvis Costello

[3] Pink Moon Nick Drake

[4] THE CURE - A Forest (lyrics)

[5] Teen Age Riot Sonic Youth

[6] Almost Blue Elvis Costello

[7] Pilgrimage rem

[8] Beck - Loser (Official Music Video)

[9] Gouge Away PixiesOfficial

[10] Billie Marten - This Is How We Move

[11] R.E.M. - Talk About The Passion

[12] Nirvana - All Apologies (MTV Unplugged)

[13] Providence Sonic Youth

[14] When It Hurts So Bad Ms. Lauryn Hill

[15] Jeff Buckley - Grace (Official Video)

[16] Mary J. Blige, U2 - One (Official Music Video)

[17] Mary J. Blige - Everything (Official Music Video)

[18] Echo & The Bunnymen - The Killing Moon (Official Music Video)

[19] Red Hot Chili Peppers - Under The Bridge [Official Music Video]

[20] Scorpions - Wind Of Change (Official Music Video)

[21] Candle Sonic Youth

[22] The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows (Cover) by Daniela Andrade

[23] Nick Drake - Day Is Done

[24] Hey PixiesOfficial

[25] Place To Be Nick Drake

[26] Pixies - Here Comes Your Man (Official Video)

[27] Just Fine Mary J Blige

[28] Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication (Official Music Video) [HD UPGRADE]

28 tracks .... because.... Dad.

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I originally created this post before Dad died - on this date - 2409.07 - 10:10

- Bloggery committed by chris tower - 2608.24 - 10:10

- Days ago: MOM = 4071 days ago & DAD = 725 days ago

- New note - On 1807.06, I ceased daily transmission of my Hey Mom feature after three years of daily conversations. I post Hey Mom blog entries on special occasions. I post the days since ("Days Ago") count on my blog each day, and now I have a second count for Days since my Dad died on August 28, 2024. I am now in the same time zone as Google! So, when I post at 10:10 a.m. PDT to coincide with the time of Mom's death, I am now actually posting late, so it's really 1:10 p.m. EDT. But I will continue to use the time stamp of 10:10 a.m. to remember the time of her death and sometimes 13:40 EDT for the time of Dad's death. The blog entry numbering in the title has changed to reflect total Sense of Doubt posts since I began the blog on 0705.04, which include Hey Mom posts, Daily Bowie posts, and Sense of Doubt posts. Hey Mom posts will still be numbered sequentially. New Hey Mom posts will use the same format as all the other Hey Mom posts; all other posts will feature this format seen here.

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4198 - Awesome Coney Dogs! It's a Detroit Thing

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4198 - Awesome Coney Dogs! It's a Detroit Thing

I adore coney dogs.

Also, chili dogs, Chicago dogs, etc.

Found a new Vancouver place yesterday!

Link to my Diggity Dawgs reel in case embed below dies.

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Christopher Tower (@gmrstudios)

Not true coneys as the chili had beans.

They were very good.

However, NOTHING compares to the Root Beer Stand dogs in Kalamazoo.

Maybe I should just work on making my own...

A Coney Island hot dog is a grilled or steamed frankfurter in a soft bun, smothered in a savory, beanless beef meat sauce, then topped with yellow mustard and freshly diced raw onions. Despite the name, it is a regional staple of the American Midwest—most famously in Detroit, Michigan. [1, 2]

History and Culture

• Immigrant Origins: Created in the early 20th century by Greek and Macedonian immigrants who passed through New York's Coney Island and named their new Midwestern creations after it.
• Detroit Rivalry: Southeast Michigan became the epicenter of the dish, anchored by a legendary, decades-old sibling rivalry on Lafayette Boulevard between American Coney Island and Lafayette Coney Island .
• Atmosphere: Classic coney shops are known for their fast-paced, no-frills counter service, retro signage, and bustling, crowded dining rooms. [5, 6]

Anatomy and Preparation

• The Sausage: Typically an all-beef or beef-and-pork Vienna style frankfurter, often featuring a natural sheep or lamb casing that gives it a distinct "snap" when bitten.
• The Bun: A soft, lightly steamed white bun that holds the warm ingredients together without becoming overly soggy.
• The Sauce: A finely minced, soupy, and mildly spiced beef-heart or ground-beef chili sauce flavored with chili powder, cumin, and garlic.
• The Finish: Layered strictly with a bold line of yellow mustard and a generous handful of raw white onions. [1]

AI responses may include mistakes.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5gR01L4BCE

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coney_Island_hot_dog

[3] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UwAdXaunYx4

[4] https://detroitconeygrill.com/the-detroit-style-coney-dog-an-arizona-love-story/

[5] https://www.thepernateam.com/blog/where-to-eat-near-ford-field-and-comerica-park-in-detroit/

[6] https://www.facebook.com/masslive/posts/georges-coney-island-hot-dogs-a-restaurant-in-worcester-for-more-than-100-years-/1036042448569703/

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coney_Island_hot_dog

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog_variations

[9] https://www.foodandwine.com/most-popular-hot-dog-searches-per-state-8673252

[10] https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/238509/coney-island-hot-dogs/

CONEY DOGS!!!

https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/dining/2026/07/01/coney-hot-dog-detroit/90702839007/

Note: there's a 39 second video at the link above and animations of what a coney dog is.

How the coney dog tells a uniquely Detroit story

Lyndsay C. GreenJennifer Borresen

Detroit Free Press

July 1, 2026Updated July 15, 2026, 12:33 a.m. ET

Chili, mustard, onions. Say this ingredient trio without context, and like a call and response, the Detroiters in the room will reply with a resounding chant: "Coney!"

The coney dog, Detroit’s signature hot dog and arguably the city’s national dish, is set apart from the classic American hot dog by those distinguishing toppings. The dog is ladled with rich beef chili, mildly flavored with notes of cumin and garlic, sprinkled with crisp, diced white onions and finished with a scribble of pungent yellow mustard.

As we celebrate the 250th anniversary of the founding of the United States, we’re reflecting on the dishes that typify American culture. Hot dogs, we’ve found, are undeniably the quintessential, all-American food.

Hot dogs were “invented” in the U.S. when German sausages were served in buns. They’re a staple of baseball games, the all-American pastime — what would a Tigers game be without a hot dog? And they are truly democratic: nearly anyone can afford to enjoy them.

But even more, hot dogs are American because of their adaptability, reflecting the ingenuity and diversity that gives our country such a rich culinary tapestry.

The coney was brought to Detroit in the early 1900s by way of Greek migrants who passed through Coney Island, a historic neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York, best known for its amusement park of the same name. It’s a manifestation of the American dream, founded by immigrants influenced by the touchpoints along the journey to Michigan, their chosen home in this country.

Regional hot dog toppings — from the chili, mustard and onion trio on the coney to celery salt on the Chicago dog to jalapenos on the Sonoran hot dog in the Southwest — tell distinct stories of place.

Learn more about the coney’s contribution to the United States of hot dogs.

What is a coney dog?

According to the Detroit Historical Society, though the Greek immigrants who developed the recipe for the coney assumed the name of Brooklyn’s Coney Island, the coney is vastly different from the simple franks in buns sold at the amusement park. Detroit coneys start with a beef dog in a natural skin casing tucked into a soft, steamed bun. That cumin-flavored chili is distinct, made with fine ground beef. Some recipes tout a blend that includes beef heart, the offal offering a mealy texture — and by now, you know the ingredients that follow. No coney is complete without mustard and onions.

The first Coney Island restaurant, the no-frills, diner-style eateries where coneys are now served throughout metro Detroit, was Todoroff’s Original Coney Island in Jackson, Michigan. Macedonian immigrant George Todoroff opened the restaurant in 1914, and pioneered the hot dog variety we know today. More than a century later, Joe Grimm, co-author of the book “Coney Detroit,” wrote that metro Detroit was home to about 500 Coney Islands

3 Classic restaurants to try a coney dog.

American Coney Island

Just three years after the opening of Todoroff’s, Constantine "Gust" Keros brought the first Coney Island to Detroit. American Coney Island would become a hotspot for coney dogs in downtown Detroit and has remained as such in the same location operated by the Keros family for just shy of 100 years. The Keros family would later open Kerby’s Koney Island, which has grown to include 15 locations across Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties, and family cousins would open Leo’s Coney Island, now with dozens of locations throughout the state. Details: 114 W. Lafayette, Detroit. 313-961-7758, americanconeyisland.com.

Lafayette Coney Island

Also in the Keros family tree is Lafayette Coney Island. Lore has it that William “Bill” Keros operated American Coney Island alongside his brother, Gust, until a dispute led them to part ways. Bill would eventually open Lafayette Coney Island right next door, leaving customers to fuel a familial rivalry and debate over which location slings the better coney. The debate lives on to date. Details: 118 W. Lafayette, Detroit. 313-964-8198, lafayetteconeyisland.club.

National Coney Island

Another family-run chain, National Coney Island opened the doors of its first location at Macomb Mall in Roseville in 1965. The diner started with the iconic coney dog, of course, but eventually innovated a new dish that would become its signature: the hani. The sandwich layers fried chicken, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese and a mayonnaise sauce between slices of pita, and like the coney, is another example of a Greek spin on an American classic. Details: Visit nationalconeyisland.com for locations.

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- Bloggery committed by chris tower - 2608.15 - 10:10

- Days ago: MOM = 4062 days ago & DAD = 716 days ago

- New note - On 1807.06, I ceased daily transmission of my Hey Mom feature after three years of daily conversations. I post Hey Mom blog entries on special occasions. I post the days since ("Days Ago") count on my blog each day, and now I have a second count for Days since my Dad died on August 28, 2024. I am now in the same time zone as Google! So, when I post at 10:10 a.m. PDT to coincide with the time of Mom's death, I am now actually posting late, so it's really 1:10 p.m. EDT. But I will continue to use the time stamp of 10:10 a.m. to remember the time of her death and sometimes 13:40 EDT for the time of Dad's death. The blog entry numbering in the title has changed to reflect total Sense of Doubt posts since I began the blog on 0705.04, which include Hey Mom posts, Daily Bowie posts, and Sense of Doubt posts. Hey Mom posts will still be numbered sequentially. New Hey Mom posts will use the same format as all the other Hey Mom posts; all other posts will feature this format seen here.