A Sense of Doubt blog post #4220 - Avengers Forever and Carlos Pacheco RIP - Comic Book Sunday for 2609.06

A Sense of Doubt blog post #4220 - Avengers Forever and Carlos Pacheco RIP - Comic Book Sunday for 2609.06

Earlier this year, I re-read Avengers Forever (2005) by Busiek, Pacheco, and Merino.

When I did, while doing some research, I remembered that Carlos Pacheco had died a few years ago, and I had meant to post a tribute for him.

These are some of my favorite creators. Kurt Busiek is a top writing favorite. Carlos Pacheco is also a top of the list favorite artist. Merino's inks on his work are brilliant.

I have postponed this blog entry many times, so I am glad I found the time to get it all done for today's post.

Avengers Forever may be my favorite Avengers story, if not, top five.

This is great stuff.

Carlos Pacheco and I are the same age.

He is greatly missed.

Thanks for tuning in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avengers_Forever

https://theslingsandarrows.com/avengers-forever/

Comics You Should Own – ‘Avengers Forever’

By Greg Burgas March 11, 2020

https://atomicjunkshop.com/comics-you-should-own-avengers-forever/

Hi, and welcome to Comics You Should Own, a semi-regular series about comics I think you should own. I began writing these a little over fifteen years ago, and I’m still doing it, because I dig writing long-form essays about comics. I republished my early posts, which I originally wrote on my personal blog, at Comics Should Be Good about ten years ago, but since their redesign, most of the images have been lost, so I figured it was about time I published these a third time, here on our new blog. I plan on keeping them exactly the same, which is why my references might be a bit out of date and, early on, I don’t write about art as much as I do now. But I hope you enjoy these, and if you’ve never read them before, I hope they give you something to read that you might have missed. I’m planning on doing these once a week until I have all the old ones here at the blog. Today we have Kurt Busiek and Carlos Pacheco’s epic cross-time/space Avengers story. This was originally published on 22 August 2005. As always, you can click on the images to see them better, and watch out for SPOILERS! Enjoy!

Avengers Forever should have had a bigger impact on the comics landscape, shouldn’t it? First of all, it’s an absolutely beautiful book. Pacheco’s art really began to take off with this book. Second, it’s a compelling story that involves all of Avengers history – and I do mean all of it. Third, it introduced the new Captain Marvel to the Marvel Universe. I know Marv’s two subsequent series didn’t really take off, but still – it’s a significant event.

I’m not saying Avengers Forever didn’t have an impact, it’s just strange it’s not treated more like a watershed event in Avengers history, because it is. This is a sprawling epic of the kind we used to get in comics but don’t very much anymore [Editor’s note: I wrote this just when DC and Marvel began their crossover-itis up once again. Prior to five years ago, crossovers had been out of fashion for a while in comics]. Avengers Forever is that kind of story – it spans centuries and universes and packs dozens of characters into its pages, but it one way, it’s much better than the super-sized stories we used to get and are now getting again – partly because it’s the work of one creative team. Busiek has a tight focus on the story he wants to tell, which raises it above the usual big-time story in that nothing contradicts anything in another book. This is a dense book, one that takes its time getting where it needs to go but never scrimps on the all-out action, and rewards you with a careful reading, because it holds up, despite so many opportunities to go off the track.

The story, boiled down, is somewhat simple. Immortus, “Master of Time!”, wants to kill Rick Jones. He is opposed in this venture, naturally, by the Avengers and their unlikely allies, the Supreme Intelligence of the Kree and Kang the Conqueror. Everyone knows that Kang eventually grows up and becomes Immortus, right? Well, I didn’t when I first read this, but luckily Busiek reminds us often that it’s the case. At the end of the first issue, Libra of the Zodiac helps Rick reach into the past and future and collect seven Avengers from different times to help him with the threat posed by Immortus. These Avengers are: Giant-Man (or Goliath) and the Wasp from the present day; Captain Marvel and Songbird from the future; and Captain America, Hawkeye, and Yellowjacket from various points in the past. This group will help fight Immortus.

Immortus, it turns out, is working for the Time-Keepers, three weird-looking dudes who watch over time. They are concerned that the human race, with Rick Jones as the catalyst, will develop awesome powers and take over the universe. So they decide to kill him. The Avengers fight back. That’s pretty much the whole story, although Busiek uses this to explore every aspect of Avengers history and show how it relates to this scheme of the Time-Keepers.

Yes, that’s right – this is a continuity-obsessed geek’s dream book. I want to look at how Busiek uses continuity to his advantage, because the actual breakdown of the issues would go on way too long. Suffice it to say that there are many fights, lots of dialogue, oodles of double-paged spreads, and a grip of pages with panels crammed onto them. Pacheco is up for it all, whether it’s the Old West or some distant planet in the future. In the last two issues, he draws practically every Avenger who ever lived, and each with stunning precision. I haven’t read JLA/Avengers [Editor’s note: I still haven’t], but I can’t imagine Pérez doing a more detailed job than what Pacheco does here. Anything Busiek throws at him he renders beautifully. The story, like I said, takes us all over the place, and we see the 1950s Avengers, the Empire of Rickard, dinosaurs in the Old West, Chronopolis – all leading us to the final showdown, when Rick meets his future self and realizes he’s going to be tied to Captain Marvel for a long time.

The reason this book rises above any other star-spanning epic is because it’s all grounded in Marvel history. This is where Busiek shines. There has been a trend recently to ignore Marvel continuity as too convoluted and difficult to understand. The Ultimate line is a result of this, but now, after six years [Editor’s note: Remember I wrote this some time ago], its continuity is becoming daunting for the casual fan. Whenever you publish titles that take place in the same world and last for years, continuity problems will ensue. Busiek shows us that it doesn’t need to ruin good stories.

Busiek is, of course, uniquely qualified for this kind of story. He’s been a comics fan for years, and an obsessive one at that. He’s also a very good comic book writer. In Avengers Forever, he simply sets about reconciling every contradiction in the timeline of the Avengers. That doesn’t sound too hard, does it? Well, it can be done, as Busiek proves. He shows how the Avengers could meet Immortus in ancient Egypt, how the Avengers could exist in 1959, why Libra has acted strangely in the past, and why Professor Horton claimed the Vision wasn’t the original Human Torch. He even throws in Lex Luthor for good measure (I kid you not). Avengers Forever is the work of a comics professional, who takes the time to read comics, understand them, and try to place them in their proper context. Busiek, who showed his obsession with history in Marvels and continues to show it with Astro City, is the kind of person you want writing this, because you’re guaranteed that he will know what he’s talking about when he puts Kid Cassidy in his comic. Ultimately, the story sets the stage for the next phase of Rick Jones’ evolution. It also re-establishes Kang as a major villain in the Marvel U.

Busiek’s use of Avengers from various times in their history seems arbitrary (it still does to me, even though he explains the choices), but it does allow him to show how the characters have changed over the years. The annoying thing about a lot of comics writers today is their ignorance of or disregard for history. Busiek knows that even the lousy stories in Marvel history have some merit, and he uses these ideas accordingly. It is somewhat arrogant of writers today to think that everything after Lee and Kirby and Ditko and the other Marvel pioneers is crap and they can simply build on what those gentlemen did. Busiek doesn’t share that attitude. He uses ideas from the mid-1990s in the book as well as stuff from the early 1960s. As he points out in the footnotes to the book (each issue has footnotes at some point), you don’t need to know all the stuff, but if you’re interested, there they are. Avengers Forever shows the mark of a good comic book writer. It’s a fresh, relatively unique story for which you don’t need to know all the minutiae (a little would help, but not all of it), but if you are a comics-obsessed geek, you’ll be in heaven. I rarely read the Avengers, but I enjoyed the story simply for what it was. Busiek is able to keep it accessible while mining the 35-year history of Marvel’s greatest superhero team.

Avengers Forever is out in trade paperback, and I recommend it for anyone who has ever picked up a Marvel comic. It’s high adventure, thrilling fights, nice characterization, and an attention to detail that is breath-taking. It won’t change the world, but it will put the fun back into superhero comics for a while. And be sure to check out the archives, which are slowly being fixed! Slowly but surely!

[Once again, this is shorter than I would have liked. I would eventually write more about art, but Pacheco’s art on this series is truly wonderful, and, I imagine, incredibly hard, because he had to fit so much into each issue. He, Merino, and Oliff really make the book shine, even when Busiek is info-dumping all over us. I probably could have written a lot more about this, and had I written this today, I probably would have, mainly because I’ve read a lot more Marvel history since then, so I know more about some of the references Busiek makes in this book. Like a lot of epic historical dramas from the Big Two, this is probably wildly out of date, just because publishing moves on in directions no one can anticipate, but it’s still a very good comic and an important benchmark in Avengers history. Check out the trade paperback below – it’s good stuff!]

https://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/13/avengers-forever/

Kurt Busiek’s Avengers – Avengers Forever (Review/Retrospective)

Posted on April 13, 2012 by Darren

April (and a little bit of May) are “Avengers month” at the m0vie blog. In anticipation of Joss Whedon’s superhero epic, we’ll have a variety of articles and reviews published looking at various aspects of “Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.”

Read our review of The Avengers here.

In many ways, to me, Kurt Busiek’s Avengers run represents comic book nostalgia given form. I can’t help but read it as an attempt to call back to the “good old days” of mainstream comic books, with all the illogical and insane twists and an old-school approach to dialogue and characterisation. On the best of days, I’ve found his approach giddy and enjoyable – it’s hard not to get caught up in his genuine enthusiasm for the material. However, when Marvel gave Busiek a twelve-issue Avengers miniseries, it seemed inevitable that the writer wouldn’t just seek to nostalgically emulate the past, but tie it all together as well. In this respect, as it weaves through decades of Avengers continuity, Avengers Forever feels almost like continuity porn. Hardcore continuity porn.

Avengers! Avenge!

I know a little about the Avengers. I’m reading up on them as Joss Whedon’s Avengers grows near. I am roughly familiar with the team history. I know the big plots. I recognise, for example, when Busiek opts to use the Captain America from the famous Secret Empire storyline, or Hank Pym in the form of the psychotic Yellowjacket. These aspects of continuity I am familiar enough with. I can even pick most of the foes from this collection out of a line-up. I don’t have a doctorate in Avengers history, though – nor do I pretend to. And, truth be told, the first half of the series actually reads quite well as a story exploring the team’s history – full of loving references, but never getting too entangled in events long past.

So Avengers Forever loses me at about the halfway point, when Busiek stops using the twelve-issue miniseries to tell a story, but as a means to retroactively “tidy up” storylines that everyone (from publisher to reader) would rather forget. I’m a bit wishy-washy on the issue continuity – I don’t believe that basic continuity excludes new readers, but I don’t believe that it makes for a good story crutch. It’s nice to build on what came before, but exposition and elaboration over events that happened in the past are unnecessary at the best of times. Including a throwaway line which explains that Iron Man is a recovering alcoholic helps his characterisation and doesn’t detract from the story at hand. On the other hand, devoting an entire issue in a twelve-part series to explaining how every crazy event in the team’s history was the result of one crazier villainous plan just kills momentum and confuses readers (like moi) with a very basic level of Marvel comprehension.

He Kang, He Saw, He Conquered...

I’ve argued before and I’ll argue again that this focus on specific minutia is damaging the medium, playing to older fans and locking newer fans out of comic books. If a kid asked me to recommend an Avengers comic book and I came back with Avengers Forever, I can assure you that they’d probably never pick up another comic book again in their life. Avengers Forever isn’t intended as a book for new readers, but it isn’t intended as a book for casual readers either. It’s a book for hardcore fans who know their issue numbers inside out – and even I can’t help feeling a little bit locked out of it all. And I will freely concede that I’m a geek, that I have a very casual knowledge of the characters and their back stories, and their important arcs – even if, as a reader born in the eighties, these old issues aren’t always easily available to me in an affordable format.

Comic book publishers make mistakes. Frequently. Unlike with movie series like James Bond or Batman, comic book writers can’t just “reboot” after a mistake like that. They have to work around the mistake that they’ve made in order to steer the story in a worthwhile direction. Even DC’s various “reboots” all have in-story explanations like Flashpoint or Crisis on Infinite Earths. However, I don’t see the benefit to anyone in dwelling on those mistakes or seeking to waste valuable time filling in gaps that nobody cares about. I’ll bet the readers were glad to see the end of those particular storylines, and certainly didn’t want to see them again – especially in a modern book.

Stars in his eyes...

The Crossing was a mistake. Feeling that the Avengers franchise was out-of-touch, the editors at marvel decided to effectively clean out the line. They turned Iron Man into a murderer, introduced “teenage Tony” and exiled the characters from continuity. Until, a few years later, they realised their mistake and brought back the characters in Heroes Reborn. Now, if you’ve read any major Marvel title over the past five years, you could be forgiven for never realising that anything like that had ever happened. It’s in the past, best forgotten about. After all, we don’t spend a few hours everyday remarking on how stupid parachute pants were – we just don’t wear them anymore. Life moves on.

However, Avengers Forever makes a valiant attempt to retroactively “fix” bad decisions like that. And, in fairness, Kurt Busiek is the right author to attempt something like that, because Kurt Busiek is the master of comic book continuity. He knows his timelines inside and out. He picked up writing duties on Avengers shortly after Heroes Reborn and fairly effectively wrote around the matter – I think there’s one brief explanation and few cryptic references, but that’s it directly after the event itself. Here, however, he seems to consciously try to repair some of the damage done to the franchise and the characters.

Doors to the past...

So he writes off these plots as not “really” being the Avengers, but being the subtle manipulations of a time-traveling supervillain. If you’ve watched The Simpsons, you’ll recognise that he’s pretty much saying “a wizard did it” – which is just lazy writing. However, that’s not the problem. The problem is that he spends an entire issue explaining to us exactly which wizard did what. Iron Man’s out-of-character behaviour at the end of The Kree-Skrull War? Immortus “instilling him with a sense of xenophobia.” Any subsequent jerkiness was the result of this interference, which “made the armoured avenger short-tempered, even cruel.” He then explains exactly what happened in The Crossing – which is kinda boring, because I’ve never read it (and most who have were so scarred that I’m not sure they’d want to return to it).

Hell, he even uses it to re-write Hank Pym’s convoluted mental history (which has been exaggerated to the point where it’s his defining characteristic). Although this meddling didn’t cause his breakdown, It did deepen and worsen it. “No one caused your breakdowns, Henry Pym,” the captured shapeshifter assures him. “We just lied to you. It just made things all the more convincing to back them up with a lie you wanted to believe.”

Maybe they should call him "Grey Panther"?

Perhaps I’m reading too much into this, but it does bother me. It’s exactly the kind of insular comic book continuity obsession that alienates the mainstream. Anyone reading my reviews of New Avengers will know that I have enough problems with storylines dependent on concurrent plots in different titles to make sense. Here the storyline is dependent on fragments from over thirty-odd years of rich comic book history. I’m not interested in the “byzantine schemes” of a master villain which exist through convoluted narrative structure to make every line in every comic technically true (especially since it results in something even more confusing).

Which is a shame, because there is actually, against all odds, a lot to like here. There are no thought balloons and the hokier elements of Busiek’s writing seem to be toned down. In fact, for the first three issues – when Busiek was using existing references to continuity to tell a story and explaining everything he needed to – the book seems like it might have been aimed at a wider market than the hardcore Avengers fans. Sometimes things do get a little bit too out of hand, but he reigns it in.

Not everything that glitters is gold...

Busiek actually does better when he deals with the awkward recent past and the “sunnier times ahead.” It’s fun to see, for example, Busiek’s distortions of traditional heroes serving the conquering legions of Rickard Jones and the army that the Time Keepers assemble (versions from “every divergent reality that turned dark and destructive!”). In particular, the opening few chapters explore various potential pasts and futures which – while a little on the nose – fit very well thematically. Particularly opting to make Nixon a Skrull imposter (calling to mind Secret Empire, Marvel’s take on Watergate) or the scenes with Black Panther and the Martian invasion (where the character must make a strategic decision whether the team stands for live or death). These moments are simplistic, but effective.

It’s interesting to read Busiek’s handling of the main antagonists of the story – the Time Keepers – as a twisted take on Marvel editorial. After all, they oversea (and “prune”) the Marvel Universe, developing and cutting short certain trends and series within it for their own ends. They make sure, pretty much, that the Marvel Universe doesn’t grow or develop too fast. They are responsible for pretty much everything. However, Busiek could have told us that without spending so much time outlining each and every example.

Nixon is out of this world...

There are moments where I am not sure if the series is too cheesy or just cheesy enough. It walks the line a little bit. The fact that Hawkeye actually utters the line “The supreme intelligence? On a dune buggy?!” gives some indication. At its best, it’s hugely enjoyable old-school fun that isn’t afraid of being wonderfully silly. Carlos Pacheco does some fantastic work, a fitting counterpart to George Perez’s work on the regular Avengers title at the same time. There are times, to be honest, when I wanted to stop reading the words and focus on the art.

Avengers Forever might be the book for somebody. It’s very highly regarded, on-line by people who – I freely concede – know their Avengers history far better than I do. I found it tedious and overly referential, awkward and over-stated. Busiek does great character work (witness his bunch of time-snatched Avengers, for example, and the excellent Kang-centric issue which focuses too much on continuity), but it’s overshadowed by a desire to explain everything. I have no doubt Busiek can do that, but it locks a lot of us (myself included) out. I feel like I’m a child who has been invited to a birthday party by a some other kid’s mother – I can see all the other kids having fun, but I don’t know anybody there.

Capping it all off...

Note: Kurt Busiek retweeted this review last night, very kindly. He also very politely pointed out that I imputed motives to him that he didn’t have. I apologise – and wish to clearly state that everything here is (of course) my own opinion on reading the book. It doesn’t reflect what actually happened – I can’t know why creative teams make the decisions that they make, I can only try to deduce it from the material at hand.

Nevertheless, I was perhaps a bit flippant, so I’ve revised the text, and offer my sincerest apologies to the author. I was entirely too flippant, and no disrespect was intended. After all, I have found his work on the characters interesting enough to buy and read and review all of the oversized hardcovers.

You might be interested in our reviews of Busiek’s Avengers run, collected in a series of “Avengers Assemble” oversized hardcovers:

• Volume I
• Volume II
• Volume III
• Volume IV
• Volume V

You might also be interested in our reviews of his other Avengers-related stories:

• Avengers/JLA
• Avengers Forever

CARLOS PACHECO RIP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Pacheco

https://www.marvel.com/comics/creators/101/carlos_pacheco

https://comic-watch.com/news/comic-book-news/rest-in-power-legendary-artist-carlos-pacheco-1961-2022-passes-away-after-battle-with-als

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/remembering-carlos-pacheco

https://www.cbr.com/carlos-pacheco-obituary-marvel-dc-passes-away-60/

https://www.domestika.org/en/blog/11034-farewell-carlos-pacheco-illustrator-and-superhero

Illustration

Farewell Carlos Pacheco, illustrator and superhero

• Published on November 10, 2022

Remembering the life and work of Spanish comic artist, teacher, and legend of the Marvel and DC comics.

Domestika is deeply saddened by the passing of Carlos Pacheco, Spanish illustrator, teacher, true superhero of the comic genre, and member of this creative community. In September he announced his ALS (Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis) diagnosis on social media and has died from the degenerative disease aged 60 at the Línea de la Concepción hospital in Cádiz.

Illustrator Carlos Pacheco during the filming of his Domestika course

The comic artist, a true referent in Spanish comic scene, became a global legend thanks to his illustrations for X-Patrol, The Fantastic Four, Thor, Spiderman, Batman, The Avengers, and Superman. With an unwavering energy, he communicated to his followers in April that he would be taking a sabbatical due to a series of health problems.

Carlos Pacheco's superhero illustrations for The Avengers comics

Carlos Pacheco was the first Spanish illustrator to gain notoriety in the US comic industry and revealed the secrets to his success in the Marvel and DC universes in this Domestika Maestros. Alongside Carlos, we discovered the key to his impressive career, the secrets behind his style, and his magic formula for illustrating a good punch.

Born in San Roque, Cádiz in 1962, long before superheroes ruled the earth, the comic artist already worked with them as if they were old friends. Carlos was raised on the adventures of The Avengers, X-Men, and the rest of the extensive army of Marvel and DC characters, and at just 30 years old he had already fulfilled the dream of so many—to become a professional superhero illustrator for both franchises, a feat that paved the way to dozens of Spanish comics. He always maintained that he made it happen with a combination of talent, perseverance, and hard work. During the filming of his Domestika course, he insisted "I had always known I wanted to at least give it a try."

An illustration of Captain America by Carlos Pacheco

From Biology to Comics

As a child he was once handed a comic, and it was that moment that changed the course of his life forever. A fan of comic strips, the Gaditano would spend the rest of his childhood and teenage years drawing. For him, superhero comics were the last bastion of realism when drawing the human figure, and he didn't stop until he'd taught himself everything there was to know.

With a degree in biological sciences from Seville, Pacheco began drawing for different fanzine publications, and in 1982, he published a few comic strips of his own in the fan section of Comix International.

Carlos was raised on the adventures of The Avengers and X-Men and was already drawing as a young child

By the end of the '80s, Pacheco had taken the leap into the world of comics with Planeta De Agostini, illustrating the front covers for the Spanish adaptations of the Marvel comics. Drawing covers, however, was not enough, he wanted more. It was then that he decided to go to Marvel himself, work in hand.

He waited patiently until one day he was eventually contacted by Marvel's British division, for which he created the Dark Guard and Death’s Head II / Motormouth comics. Fortunately for him, when Marvel UK closed down a year later, the teams at Marvel and the equally acclaimed DC franchise were already more than aware of the Spaniard's huge talent, and so he was recruited to illustrate the adventures of Flash in 1993.

Pacheco illustrated for the X-Patrol, The Fantastic Four, Thor, Spiderman, Batman, The Avengers, and Superman comics

30 Years Drawing Superheroes from San Roque

What followed was an almost-30-year career at both Marvel and DC, during which Pacheco had the opportunity to draw the vast majority of the most popular superheroes, from Batman and Superman to the entire X-Men cast, as well as The Avengers in various forms and dozens of lesser-known but equally fascinating characters.

"Marvel's trademark superhero style at the time was one in which the beginning and end of the movement were always drawn, but never the middle. A Marvel punch was a mother of a punch, the ones in Superman and the other DC comics had nothing on them," Pacheco explained.

Superman, by Carlos Pacheco

Superheroes are the main reason most people start reading comics, and Pacheco has always been a favorite of many fans due to his ability to draw heroes on a human scale as well as his love for recreating everyday scenes. His innovative perspectives, angles, and talent when drawing heroes in action also gained him recognition as one of the best comic illustrators in the world.

Arrowsmith, one of the more personal works of Carlos Pacheco

In the hands of Pacheco and emblematic scriptwriters like Kurt Busiek, who worked with Pacheco on both superhero series and personal projects such as Arrowsmith, each and every character is sprung to life thanks to the magic combination of text and image, the place between the graphic and the narrative that you can only reach through comics.

Carlos Pacheco as a child holding a comic (image from his personal archive)

His artistic talent and energy are, without a doubt, a legacy for future generations, immortalized in each of his superheroes so that we can continue to learn from him for years to come. Our most sincere condolences go out to his family and friends.

Rest in peace Carlos.

English translation by @harriet_adams

AVENGERS FOREVER COVER GALLERY

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- Bloggery committed by chris tower - 2609.06 - 10:10

- Days ago: MOM = 4084 days ago & DAD = 738 days ago

- New note - On 1807.06, I ceased daily transmission of my Hey Mom feature after three years of daily conversations. I post Hey Mom blog entries on special occasions. I post the days since ("Days Ago") count on my blog each day, and now I have a second count for Days since my Dad died on August 28, 2024. I am now in the same time zone as Google! So, when I post at 10:10 a.m. PDT to coincide with the time of Mom's death, I am now actually posting late, so it's really 1:10 p.m. EDT. But I will continue to use the time stamp of 10:10 a.m. to remember the time of her death and sometimes 13:40 EDT for the time of Dad's death. The blog entry numbering in the title has changed to reflect total Sense of Doubt posts since I began the blog on 0705.04, which include Hey Mom posts, Daily Bowie posts, and Sense of Doubt posts. Hey Mom posts will still be numbered sequentially. New Hey Mom posts will use the same format as all the other Hey Mom posts; all other posts will feature this format seen here.